Suicidology tribe

topic posted Mon, July 12, 2004 - 12:27 AM by  Unsubscribed
I've started a fairly self-explanatory tribe called "suicidology" for any who may be interested.
I myself am particularly interested in the philosophical implications of suicide.
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    Re: Suicidology tribe

    Tue, August 3, 2004 - 10:28 PM
    The philosophical implications of suicide, in my opinion the universe or "universal laws" or rules by which are inherently "right" would say that it is not good to take ones own life, since life is considered to be a gift.

    Oh the other hand, what about personal freedom to do ones own will? and is it not better to end the suffering than to endure it?
    I've certainly thougt about it for many an hour. I have decided that I wont take my life now till I'm over 70years of age. At that time, I would expect my quality of life to be less than wonderful.
    And in I have justified in my own mind that this is not going against any universal law, since my life is fairly complete and my health will be deteriated.
    Patrick
    • Re: Suicidology tribe

      Wed, August 4, 2004 - 12:21 AM
      "since life is considered to be a gift. "

      Quick, someone call the cliche patrol.
      • Re: Suicidology tribe

        Wed, August 4, 2004 - 8:09 AM
        While in some cultures life was a gift, in others it was something stolen from the gods. But whether it was stolen or a gift, many cultures felt it sometimes needs to be paid back. This was the basis for human sacrifice once upon a time. The most precious thing we have, gifted back to the originator. But I know, that has nothing to do with suicide. Just clarifying the whole gift thing.

        However, I think we need to consider here whether we want this to become a religious debate in the philosophy tribe before we continue. I'm up for it, so long as no one gets offended. Not every religion or culture views suicide as something repugnant.
      • Re: Suicidology tribe

        Sat, June 4, 2005 - 4:41 PM
        LOl, life, a "gift?" not if you are living in india.

        Then it's just one more lifetime in 4,000,000,000 years of this "worlds' life time.

        sheesh. ;-)
    • Re: Suicidology tribe

      Fri, August 6, 2004 - 11:36 AM
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      The philosophical implications of suicide, in my opinion the universe or "universal laws" or rules by which are inherently "right" would say that it is not good to take ones own life, since life is considered to be a gift.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------

      Taking a purely non-religious view on this (as I am prone to do) I, personally, would hesitate to say that life is a gift by univeral law. On the contrary, I would say that life is more a
      matter of fact. Every atom can be said to be alive, if life is defined by the ability to act on one's one. Although an atom "acts" due to simple magnetism (positively charged particles interacting with negatively charged particles) that basic unit makes up all matter itself. Since the universe that we can percieve is comprised entirely of matter (stars, planets, land, water, etc) by this definition everything is alive.

      This being said, life itself ceases to be a "miracle" and merely "mundane."

      Also by this definition, the taking of life has little meaning since even killing someone or yourself does not stop an atom from "acting." True, the body takes on different forms such as decay, however that is merely the transferring of one state to another, since it is a universal law that all things in the universe are comprised of energy and the amount of energy in the universe is constant.

      Thus suicide itself has no meaning unless a moral context is placed upon it.

      That being said, as Candace pointed out, different cultures of different belief systems view suicide differently (man, that's a loaded sentence ;) For instance, in feudal Japan, suicide was considered an honorable act of a samurai who failed to protect his master, whereas those who chose the opposite were called Ronin (although my feadal Japanese history is rusty, I believe the name meant literally either masterless warrior, or something similar to lost soul, although I could very well be wrong about this.)

      In my personal opinion, which is pretty much psychological, premeditated suicide (as opposed to the "crying for help" form, which I will discuss in a moment) is the result of severe emotional distress, in which the survival instinct is either consciously or subconsciously "turned off." It is like a fatal run-time bug in a computer system.

      Suicide defined as a "cry for help" is another psychological matter entirely. In this case, the intent, be it conscious or subconscious is not to die, but to make others see that one needs help, for whatever the reason, with helping themselves. The survival instinct is still "turned on" in this case, as in most of these suicides death tends to be slow enough for the person to be able to found before it is too late, whether their finding happens or not is beyond the scope of my argument. This form is much more common and pretty much accepted as THE reason for suicide.
  • Re: Suicidology tribe

    Thu, August 12, 2004 - 8:17 PM
    The only thing that interests me about suicide is the fact that people find it interesting.

    Suicide isn't any more exciting than breathing or birth or farting. It is something a human is capable of conceiving and physically manifesting.

    The capacity of conception seems, to me, a more interesting topic.
    • Re: Suicidology tribe

      Sun, August 22, 2004 - 4:07 PM
      To say that any discussion consists of, or lack of, excitement seems, to me, a poor reason for or against the discussion. Interests regarding concrete topics can be just as intellectually rewarding as abstract topics. It all depends on one's tastes.

      This being said, the capacity of conception is an interesting topic none-the-less. The ability to imagine something and create it physically from the thought, is a limitless trait.
      • Re: Suicidology tribe

        Sun, August 22, 2004 - 5:15 PM
        Yeah. that's a good point. I guess I'm also interested in why people put more emphasis on sucide than breathing, farting, etc...

        I know suicide is different in many ways than breathing because it is not required for personal survival.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Suicidology tribe

          Sun, August 22, 2004 - 9:59 PM
          Suicide becomes "exciting" when it has effected you, in my experience. While "breathing, farting, etc..." effect us, they are less emotionally charged topics for most people.
          • Re: Suicidology tribe

            Sun, August 22, 2004 - 11:17 PM
            I think you mean "affected" but I see your point. I think what you're saying is that because suicide is related to death it has more of an effect. We know the effect of a fart, but not the effect of death. That's something I would like to know.
            • Re: Suicidology tribe

              Tue, August 24, 2004 - 7:49 PM
              i think the survival instinct can cause you to commit suicide. You only kill yourself when you think it's a better alternative to what's coming. Like, when you're stranded on the moon and NASA isn't spending another 6 billion to get you off. Or the KGB found you spying.

              The only thing that makes me wonder what life is in the first place, is when i contradict my own intentions or desires, and i have no idea why. It's surreal when life exceeds your expectations, in a good or a bad way.

              I concluded living is good, but thinking about life is not good. Often times it's best to shut up and go with it. If you want anything more out of it, you're a terrible human being.
              • Re: Suicidology tribe

                Tue, August 24, 2004 - 8:32 PM
                On the contrary the survival instinct would be the mechanism that causes you "botch" the suicide attempt (i.e. chickening out, making sure to get to an area where people might help you, etc.)

                However, in times of great stress or through discipline we seem to be able to override the innate instincts. Such examples include ignoring hunger, thirst, pain, rationale, etc. Monks in Tibet have been known to be able to raise their body temperatures in order to allow them to meditate in extreme cold wearing only their robes or nothing at all. Control, of the body, of this magnitude supports the idea that we can consciously control every minute aspect of our bodies.

                To bring myself back to my original point, if one is able to override the survival instinct, be it by hopelessness (re: the stranded on the Moon example) or by fear (re: the KGB example,) one can achieve suicide.

                This being said, overriding the survival instinct would also be an appearent ability in those who willingly put themselves in harm's way, such as stuntmen, fire-fighters, etc.
                • Re: Suicidology tribe

                  Sat, June 4, 2005 - 4:44 PM
                  On the contrary the survival instinct would be the mechanism that causes you "botch" the suicide attempt (i.e. chickening out, making sure to get to an area where people might help you, etc.)
                  ---
                  Perhaps, but i do see his point.

                  I think of 9-11, and the men / women jumpting from teh buildings.

                  I think there is a sense when your mind and body say "which is likely to be more horiffic".

                  and then you will likely choose whichever is "easiest" in the sense of pain you'll face.

                  i don't know that this is "instinct" per say, but i can understnd his poin.
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              Re: Suicidology tribe

              Wed, August 25, 2004 - 11:32 PM
              Exactly.
              • Re: Suicidology tribe

                Thu, June 2, 2005 - 9:02 PM
                It's interesting that we are the only species on Earth that is capable of suicide. It's sad that we exercise that capabitlity form time to time.

                But when all is said and done - the only psycological consequence of suicide is the one left on those we leave behind. We are really nothing if not an extension of those we love and to believe otherwise is folly. So to make a decision on suicide independently of our loved ones is the single highest form of selfishness that we are capable of.

                Whatever your belief, once you're dead - you're dead. The psychological implications ended at the point of death.

                For what it's worth.

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